It would be also correct when the last three words are omitted.
So, from now on, whenever you (automatically) think that something is experienced when you think of liberation, then drop that thought right away. The realization that you are free already may grow by and by (out of nothing) and is not necessarily an event or a no-event.

Okay

Btw, do you do any regular exercises like meditation etc? Bodywork?
What’s your relation with your body?

I regularly (weekly often daily) practice a HeartMath technique that involves regulation of the breath and awareness of the heart, coupled with the intentional generation of positive emotion (care, appreciation, etc). This can be used (but does not have to be) with biometric software that provides visual and auditory feedback on the internal state of your autonomic nervous system. You learn to generate your own psychological, physiological, and emotional coherence or balance. I have integrated Heart Rhythm Meditation into this practice as well.

From what you write I would say this is useless when we evaluate it from the helpfulness of getting rid of maya/identity. As long as there's identity, there is no balance possible. There is no need for training of positive emotional states or attitudes in my teaching; on the contrary, it could help maintain parts of identity. So I’d suggest you just stop doing it.

Okay, it is stopped.

I also receive bodywork (Hellerwork, a form of Rolfing that is less invasive and includes dialogue) about once a month. 

Yes, bodywork is indispensable for you. Would it be possible for you to do exercises several times a day that exhaust you physically?

Yes, possibly not several times a day, but certainly at least once or twice a day.

Good

Over the last 6 weeks I changed my diet as I was starting to experience an expanding waistline and putting on weight that was unwanted and unneeded. I have also just started a workout program, in order to get the body in better health and conditioning.

Yes, that's it. Workout every day. The body in better shape is just a by-product. I want you to get more body-centered (instead of being over-intellect centered).

Okay

I used to do many things (coffee, sugars, poor eating habits, poor exercise) that were not body healthy. I still smoke cigarettes. Time for a change.

Let it come naturally, don't force. Don’t worry too much about smoking, coffee and sugar. Btw, I found D'Adamo's blood group diet helpful for the body. Maybe you give it a try for a couple of weeks without being too fanatic.

Okay. I will look into the D'Adamo.
  
Good. What is exactly your goal in life?

On an existential level: To realize my true nature…

That’s okay.

…To assist others if and when that is realized…

That’s to be dropped…

Why?

It is not helpful to project something on a not yet achieved nothing.
Drop this right away and stop/delete all thoughts that are in relation to this whenever they appear. Tell me in a couple of days how this evolves.

Okay! This is profound

…To live life as it unfolds. To die as a body, without identity.

That’s fine.
Do you desire this with all your being? Yes are you ready to suffer for it if necessary, more than you can imagine now?

A difficult question to answer. If I cannot imagine the suffering how can I say for sure?

Not a specific suffering, just "more than ever".

Yes.

That being said, since suffering in my book comes from arguing with "what is", I have found it increasingly easier to not suffer.  So my final answer is yes.

I can't follow you in your conclusion. How can something, which makes it easier to suffer, lead you to accept more intense suffering?

What I meant to communicate is that I no longer argue with "what is", with reality, so there is really not much suffering in my life. On occasion I do still forget, and start arguing with what is, but this usually only lasts briefly before I realize what I'm doing and stop it.

Do you remember the difference between necessary and unnecessary suffering in Gurdjieff's teaching?

No

Please re-read the corresponding chapters and tell me in your words how you understand the difference.

Corresponding chapter in which books? ...I'll give this a shot, although I only found a couple of references in In Search for the Miraculous. 

That’s fine.
There’s another book, if you have it, take a look, it's also by Ouspensky called "the 4th way".

Necessary suffering can lead to awakening (self-remembering in Gurdjieffian terms). Necessary suffering is about dealing with inner fears, intentionally putting myself in situations that are possibly uncomfortable, that I dislike or find distasteful.  Unnecessary suffering is the suffering that I refer to above. Unnecessary suffering that comes from arguing or not accepting reality.

Self-pity is another frequent unnecessary suffering.
On not accepting reality:
It seems that this is a major issue in your system.

Perhaps you have misunderstood me or I am misunderstanding you. I feel that I easily accept whatever comes along, including reality. I understand you to be saying that I do not. Can you clarify this? I have done much work on "accepting the reality of what is."

So for quite some time there hasn't been anything/anyone in your life that upsets you? Makes you feel angry? Makes you feel humiliated? Not even g.w.bush?(laughing)

No, I still experience upset, still get angry, (I can't remember the last time I was humiliated), but I don't suffer because of these emotions or the situations that caused them. I experience them (the emotions) and then let them go.

Please give me an example.
These (negative) emotions create/maintain identity and when you do the right work on them, they are a leverage to get rid of identity.
So it's an important issue for our work.

My ex-wife had custody of our son. She then accused me of taking his side, not supporting her decision and then started attacking me verbally. This whole scenario made me extremely angry, while at the same time causing me to feel very sorry and sympathetic for my son. I experienced the anger, watched it and then let it go, put it in the garbage.

That’s fine. And you write it as if it's easy. How the hell do you manage to do this (let go the anger) so easily? And is it really gone or only put under the carpet?

It was not easy at first. It took time and effort to learn to look at the anger rather than being caught up in the experience of me being angry. I learned to realize that anger does not benefit me in any way either emotionally, psychologically or physiologically.  Actually the anger itself is not the problem, it is the holding on to it that is the problem. I feel that it is really gone and not put under the carpet!

I’m okay with the way you handle the situation.

Okay

I continued to feel the sympathy for my son and his situation and soon I experienced concern and occasional anxiety because of his situation. This concern and anxiety surfaced many times through the year. Each time I allow myself to experience the emotions, observe them and then discard them. I hope this helps.

For what it is worth he is a good kid.I am proud of him.




Please make a list of subjects that are still difficult to accept.

Fear is an emotion or perhaps a subject that I believe I avoid rather than accept. Fear of what, I am not certain. Success, failure, humiliation are all possibilities, although I am not certain of what I am fearful. At times I have even thought that I fear that which I seek (dissolution of identity). I remember when taking psychedelics that fear was a factor always.

Fear has to be treated as a resistance to feel necessary suffering.
Whenever there's fear, it hides (usually necessary) suffering unless it's an instinctive fear of imminent danger.
Please check if that fits in your case.

Yes I believe that it does fit. Certain situations that involve self-promotion are difficult for me. For instance, I have avoided putting myself in front of groups of people (in order to promote my practice). This feels like it is an unknown fear on my part.

Okay, we'll check that later.
And continue to check in everyday life events related to non-acceptance.
On the one hand these are basic manifestations of your identity to say: I am (on the one side) and there is (on the other side): you (re) produce separation in these moments, separation between you and the outside world.
On the other hand, this work on accepting the suffering of accepting reality and not arguing is a leverage to diminish significantly the impact of identity.

Are you saying this is desirable or something that should be let go?

Please tell me to what exactly refers the word "this" in your question.

This refers to your statement "on the other hand, this work on accepting the suffering of accepting reality and not arguing is a leverage to diminish significantly the impact of identity."

It is desirable to accept the suffering of accepting reality and not arguing. It seems to me that in your case you're not in contact with the suffering part of accepting reality that would be necessary suffering.

That is not how I see myself, however I respect and value your observations, so I will look at this (the not being in contact with the suffering part of accepting reality).

Yes, that's intriguing me deeply. I still have difficulties in understanding the way you treat negative emotions. Please check inside yourself.

I will.
I treat negative emotions no differently than positive emotions.

Maybe the "problem" is here. Negative emotions create and maintain identity, and there is no "positive emotions" on that level. They are not counterpart to negative emotions.
All emotions that are not negative emotions come from essential value (unless they are created by identity as it happens often in concepts and beliefs), and there is no need to "create" them or to work on them in my teaching. I wouldn't even call them positive emotions, but rather emotions or natural emotions. Authentic emotions cannot be cultivated or created, either they happen or they don’t.
        
This is very Fourth Way, yes?

This is not a helpful reply.
What matters is that you understand it and the implications.
Is there a resistance to understanding this and/or to act according to this understanding?

No resistance just a question. In an attempt to understand all that I can from you. The other day you mentioned The Fourth Way by Ouspensky, although I already own the book (put away in a box in the garage) I bought another copy rather than forage through numerous boxes. I am attempting to learn as much as possible, particularly about concepts such as negative emotions, which are obviously important to your teaching. 

Not in general, but in your case it is.

Okay

Gurdjieff and Ouspensky are where I started some 35 years ago. I have forgotten much of their teaching. And I have interestingly realized in the last few days, that my understanding (or lack of understanding) then, has changed now, 35 years later.

Emotions just manifest themselves differently. For me, negative and positive are only two polarities of the same thing, in this case, emotion. I know that emotionally, psychologically and physically, positive emotions have a beneficial effect on the body-mind system while negative emotions have a detrimental effect on the same system. Yet both are simply emotions. And I have learned to accept the negative almost in the same manner that I accept the positive. There is less resistance to the negative than there was in the past. And I have learned how to generate the positive emotions intentionally.

The way I understand what you just wrote, there's indications for me that something's going wrong (not objectively of course, but in relation to your liberation project).
But it's still just a hypothesis. I’m still trying to understand the way you handle emotions.
I understand now that there is suffering when you accept reality instead of arguing.
Could you describe this kind of suffering? How does it feel?

It feels sometimes as if I am lost, sometimes as if I am alone, sometimes as if I am depleted of energy. It is difficult to describe. It often manifests as anxiety and worry (usually about my sons, sometimes about the future).
Perhaps this will help or has some bearing. Two and a half years ago, while I was in the middle of switching careers, thinking and feeling that everything was going well, I was stricken with the first of what would be many panic attacks. I am sure with your background you are familiar with them (if not, I can provide more details). Suffice it to say, that my world started to shrink, and these panic attacks increased in frequency, strength and duration. Doctors offered only prescription medications, so I took matters into my own hands and searched for alternatives. I discovered the HeartMath work and started to practice the techniques. Within weeks I started gaining control back of my life and these frightening and debilitating episodes gradually subsided. I have been free of them now in any shape or form for the past 6 months or so.

I think this is what I needed to know.
You have to become more and more aware of the moments when not accepting reality is present and do the right work immediately.
It could be tiny events, like someone has put the cup not in the right place in the kitchen and you don't find it right away.

There is at first a rejection, a tension in the body when you're about to create separation; you have to learn to detect these physical signs. And then, right away, accept accepting the situation and relax physically and existentially.

There is no way to do this once and forever, it has do be done each time something like this happens in your life.

Do you have questions concerning the last issue (handling non acceptance and handling arising identity creating emotions)?

Would you explain more about handling non-acceptance and handling arising identity creating emotions?

First we have to see why you're not enough in contact with these kind of emotions. Otherwise you won't be able to understand, even if I explained it more.

Okay
I guess that I am still unclear on the difference between what is necessary suffering and what is unnecessary suffering. Up to now, I feel I have been accepting of whatever comes along. I am assuming therefore that I have been avoiding or not experiencing both necessary and unnecessary suffering. An example of this is a relationship with a woman that I have been involved with for 5 years. Several days ago, she told me that our relationship was not working for her. This is a recurring theme with her and I. In the past I have resisted this and attempted to either change myself to fit her expectations or reason with her as to why it is working and we should stay together. I started to repeat this again, but after a day of sitting with it, I decided that I was creating my own suffering and just let it go. Is this unnecessary or necessary suffering?

To be able to answer your question, please tell me first to what exactly refers "this"? Or reformulate the question.

"This" refers to the suffering that occurs surrounding the dissolution of the relationship. The sense of loss, the possibility of not having the comfort of someone I am accustomed to and love in my life anymore. In the past I was upset by this and attempted to either change myself (to be more like she needed me to be) or to change her mind into seeing that from my perspective there was no problem.  Now I have identified my suffering as being the result of me arguing with the "reality" of what she has decided. For her, the relationship no longer works. I accepted that and as a result there was no more suffering for me.  Is this unnecessary or necessary suffering?

As far as I understand your accepting of the reality of the situation cut short unnecessary suffering.

Okay. That's exactly what I feel and think about the situation.
I understand me on the one side and the world on the other, and how I am creating separation with the outside world and me. How to stop this?

First you have to understand how and when you create the separation. It’s not naturally present; it's a mechanism that you learned to put into place in many different everyday situations. You have to be alert to trace this mechanism in actual life situations, and then
(learn how to) stop it from spreading in your nervous system. Like in the example with the cup in the kitchen.

Would you provide other examples please? Thanks.

You may take situations that upset you, which make you angry even if it's very light anger. There should be some every day.

Okay. There are situations like this that do occur often. Looking back, my sense is that I deal with the anger, yet I can see in retrospect that I am still creating the separation in my mind.

That’s what I don't understand. You seem to know how not to express negative emotions, how to "transform" them, and yet you tell me that you still create separation.
The basics of creating and maintaining separation are negative separating emotions.

Would you please clarify or re-formulate "the basics of creating and maintaining separation is negative, separating emotions." I understand "the basics of creating and maintaining separation is negative". I don't understand what follows after the comma, "separating emotions" as it relates to what came before.

I should not have put the comma. Negative emotions are usually emotions that create and enhance separation. They reinforce the ego (me) and they strengthen the other as other (you).
That’s how the little child builds and reinforces his ego (the "I" and
"You"), by anger, and usually adults maintain this mechanism.

Okay.

Never put yourself in an uncomfortable situation before asking my advice beforehand. I’ve had my students to do this on their own, and most of the time it produced unwanted results.
It needs to be specific situations that will be helpful, and it's very difficult to know for oneself. From now on, when there's suffering, pain, discomfort etc. please check if it has to be accepted (necessary suffering: reality-related) or to be put aside (unnecessary suffering: representation-related, not accepting reality)


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