Kate It is not easy and I am tired of it all. But yet I do not think I have moved very far into the night. I am a little afraid that I will not be able to cope as the night progresses. What I have now is all that I know.
WB To become liberated is like climbing a high mountain. In the beginning it's relatively easy but the more you're up the more the air gets thinner and the more it's arduous. The last ten meters are the most difficult of the whole adventure.
Kate I have always liked the word adventure - stepping into the unknown.
I have started the climb, I may get very tired but I know I only have to think about this step - the one I am currently taking. At times I think this will be the only way I will get through it. At other times I find it exciting and am eager for the climb.
WB That sounds nice :)
Kate The migraines have been fairly heavy this last week, (the herbal tea is not working). We are also busy at work just now, so the fact that my energy is low is not good and then the migraines just make things worse.
WB I'm pretty sure that things will get a bit better when you really accept each situation as it is: you're confronted with what I call original belief and the most important thing to do is accept.
Kate Yes, it's no good trying to accept. To say that I'm trying to accept is still saying that I am not accepting. To be honest I don't know if I am accepting or not.
WB I think that you wouldn't be unsure about it if you really were into complete accepting.
Kate That's probably true.
Kate I am not fighting anything that I can think of.
WB Not fighting doesn't mean accepting.
It seems to me that there's still some resistance to accepting. Maybe we should change the word: what about surrendering, giving up? What does this do to you when you here those words?
Kate I feel my surrender is because I have no option, yes it is giving up. What will happen, will happen regardless of whether I want it to or not.
But you talked before about a higher level of acceptance. While I know I can't change anything, there is still the urge in me that wants to.
WB To change what?
Kate Not to change anything particularly. I think it's more finding it difficult to accept that I have no control. For example say it’s a cold rainy day, its not that I want to go outside, but it's knowing that if I do want to go outside I can. At the same time I know the reality is that I will go outside or stay inside automatically and it is only my thoughts that create the illusion that I have made a decision. However it is one thing to say this and know it in my head, it is quite another thing to accept it totally.
WB Accepting always happens in the here and now, this very moment. Once decisions are no more made by identity (original belief, ob), decisions are felt like a responding to what life presents. It's more like "no more getting in the way of what life presents" or "going with the flow". This doesn't mean that it's all easy but ultimately there can't be a "wrong" decision anymore. Identity decisions are sharp, non identity decisions are smooth. It's no more: I decide this or that, it's more like: the circumstances of life make that I do this or that.
Do you get that?
Kate It is a little difficult. In theory I understand what you are saying but I'm uncertain how it will work for me in practice.
WB You can not know in advance !
Kate I will keep it in mind and watch carefully how I handle decisions as they come up.
WB Yes, especially when there's two or more alternatives.
Kate I find it difficult to know how much identity is involved when they are work decisions, such as whether to employ someone and how much to pay them.
WB If you don’t feel it then maybe it's not your job to do it. Maybe it corresponds more to ev of somebody else to take such decisions. (That doesn't mean that you don't help this other person in his considerations).
Essential Value
WB We have to talk now about essential value (ev). EV is your real/divine nature. Please re-read what I wrote about it and what is on my website and in my book. As far as I remember I talk a lot on ev with Christian (keywords: ev, e.v., essential value).
When there's no more identity all decisions are taken from ev.
When you're "centered" in your ev,
1. You can't make "wrong" decisions.
2. Whatever decision you take, you assume responsibility for all implications.
Do you already have an idea what the "theme" of you ev is about?
Kate I'm still very uncertain about this. My partner tried to help by getting me to see the driving force behind some of my life decisions. We came up with freedom. Later that evening joy came into my mind.
WB Exercise:
1. Relax, feel your body, "feel" the emptiness, the absence of personal interest, the absence of identity.
2. Deep down in yourself, what is your highest value ? the one that wants to be expressed, materialized, lived; your uniqueness; with a child-like innocence.
Kate I hesitate to write this but 'To bring joy' is what comes to my mind.
When I think about it I have expressed this through various types of voluntary work with young children, which I have been drawn towards for a number of years. I don't look after the children or teach them, I play with them on an individual basis, I suppose I do try to bring them joy.
WB What about adults? If it's not the same, then it's not your ev. ev is an overall phenomenon that urges to be expressed in all contexts.
You can verify:
Kate Having read the part of this whereby it would also apply to adults, I can say that it must not be my ev. So there is no point in going through the verification. I don't see myself as a 'joy bringer' anyway.
Kate ... I don't know if 'being there' for someone is related to my ev. I tried to do the above exercise again to identify my ev but still nothing comes up.
WB The next step is to chat and during the chat we'll try to find your ev.
(After chat)
WB Oh Kate, that was something. I completely lost my time-feeling and suddenly I saw it was already 11.15 and I had to leave at 11.30. So my excuses for having stopped so abruptly. In fact, I thought it would take not more an hour and time went by without me recognizing that we were already more than 2 hours chatting.
Kate I didn’t realize the time either, it just flew. Thank you so much.
WB You're welcome !
WB So, how are you? The joy from now on is your most intimate friend and guide and you are "not allowed" to forget "him" anymore. It only remains and matures when you sr the joy.
Please tell me how it has evolved for you.
Kate It is great like I've been lifted out of a dense fog.
The joy is like a physical thing in the lower part of my chest. I can feel it all the time. It's wonderful to think that this is my compass in life, having found it, I could never forget it again.
WB It will not be always as clear and as intense as you feel it right now.
Kate Yes the intensity fluctuates, but even so, now, I know that it is always there.
Yesterday I worked all day on painting the boat and by evening I was very tired. This morning I'm looking after my Grandson and still feel very tired, almost as if I was a little drugged. But no matter how I feel physically the joy is there like a small ball of light gently pulsating.
WB Good that you mention this. ev is always present, even if one feels "down".
Kate It helps me enormously in making decisions. And I don't think I'll have a problem with regard to identity pleasure. There is a big difference between the looking for identity pleasure, and simply asking where is the joy in this decision. And if I can see no joy, then perhaps it is not my decision to make.
WB Right, or to postpone.
Kate Yes.
When I look at some of my major life changes (leaving my two husbands for example), they were made because I had lost touch with the joy in my life. I didn't move towards pleasure, in fact I went through a great deal of pain and the loss of security, but I was moving towards rekindling my joy.
Again I thank you for this wonderful gift of insight.
I forgot to save our discussion, but I don't think I need to re-read it.
WB Right, no need; I also forgot to save it.
(Several Days Later)
WB How are things evolving?
Kate The joy is always there at the centre of my being and I consciously 'remember' it quite often. This feels like 'touching home base', just checking that everything is ok.
WB Good.
Kate I also use it as 'compass' quite often. In this regard I can see how my identity holds onto wanting to be part of decisions even when there is no need. I remember a quote that went something along the lines of 'Before you can explore new lands, you have to first lose sight of the shore.' Well I feel like a boat that has many anchor lines holding it to the shore. I believe I am progressively letting go of the lines. The first lines that held me to the jetty have perhaps been loosed and I have drifted away from shore but now I find deeper anchor lines which were hidden before and each of these have to be pulled in.
WB Right. That's what usually happens.
Kate I am drawn to having time alone
WB That's a "good sign".
Kate And yet I find it difficult to rise early which is mostly the only time I have alone.
WB It's not recommended to "planify" being on one's own. That would again tend to "seeking pleasure".
Kate So simply enjoy being alone if it arises.
WB Yes. For me, each time it is like receiving a Christmas gift when I was a child :)
Kate That’s a lovely way to describe it.
---
Kate Lack of motivation is still present but I believe I am getting more used to just doing what needs doing as it presents itself.
WB Very good. You will never ever relive the same feeling of being motivated as it was before.
I've attached my book (new style) in *.pdf. Seek the keywords "personal motivation" and "natural motivation" and read the corresponding parts. That will bring you understanding of the difference.
Kate Thank you for the pdf. It is great to be able to search for words.
I understand what you are saying with regard to the two different kinds of motivation however it's still not always clear to me whether I am acting from identity.
WB As a general rule (there might be exceptions) concerning ev issues:
1. If it comes from ev then it will happen, circumstances will arise that nearly automatically will push or draw you to action.
2. as long as there is doubt, and if there is no urgent need to go for it, just wait.
3. ev can be very patient as it can stand up to waiting for a scenario to happen, a condensation of circumstances that might (or not) give birth to a given project; it can be at ease, for a long time if necessary, with the hypothesis of it happening (or not).
Identity usually has much more difficulties in managing things this way.
Kate Thank you, this helps me enormously in understanding. I think, perhaps with me, identity may be saying "you should be doing something" and I am trying to work out what it is I should be doing.
I won't make any moves. I will practice being patient and wait to see what opens up for me.
---
Kate Sometimes I feel very tired, this can go for a whole day when I find it hard to keep my eyes open, however it is more on an evening. Other days I'm fine and have plenty of energy.
WB That's normal. Tiredness seems to be the natural background state when identity is more or less deactivated; most of my friends agree with this. It nearly never happens though, that it doesn't allow to do what one has to do.
Kate I was hoping that this might be temporary :)
WB No chance :)
Kate I can always get done what needs to be done but sometimes it is very difficult.
WB Good.
Kate Ok I accept the tiredness but I wondered if you are able to explain a little why this is the case. I would have thought it would be the opposite.
WB It is the opposite when ev is in action. I presume that the tiredness is related to decisions that identity had taken sometimes many many years ago and the consequences of those decisions are still part of one's life's obligations. As one cannot not assume those, and as it's not directly related to ev, the nervous system is kind of reluctant to do what needs to be done.
Kate Thank you for the above, it explains some of the tiredness. However some of the tiredness I've felt (expressed as wanting to sleep or actually sleeping) has been excessive and didn't seem to be related to an identity decision. But on reflection I think this might have been a carry over from the 'depression stage'.
WB That's possible but it may also happen without a retraceable reason.
Kate Ok.
---
Kate I seem to be more conscious of the chattering of my mind, and I grow tired of this constant need to go over things when it is totally unnecessary. I sometimes close my eyes and try to relax into my body to alleviate this.
WB Yes, good idea. Overall subtle bodyfeeling is part of ev.
Kate I am currently editing our emails and find this most enjoyable.
WB Great. It's kind of retracing and probably sometimes also deepening your understanding of what we did so far.
Kate Yes, again it's been a real help to me.
Sometimes I am so absorbed in it that I completely lose track of time. I have almost completed the first month, this is a natural stop as you asked me to review my current stance at this time. During this first month we corresponded almost daily so it is quite comprehensive.
WB Good.
----
WB How are things evolving for you?
Kate Reading the second lot of emails has really helped me get in touch with where I was before the depression hit me. Even though I've since discovered my ev I was still feeling a little 'lost'.
Reading the emails I remembered how I had felt 'being one with nature'. It's hard to believe that I had forgotten about this but I had. So I started it again. It is a sort of an instant relaxation, almost as if I melt, or better still, dissolve into everything. It also helps me feel in touch with the 'cannot put into words' something.
WB Good.
It is not recommended to re-do this because it makes you feel good :)
Kate Since I've started doing this again (last few days) I feel as if I have again found the path up the mountain.
WB It is not recommended to re-do this because it makes you feel good :)
Kate lol :) :) :) Ok I hear what you are saying. And I have to admit it was mainly because it makes me feel good.
WB :) :) :)
Kate ... Of course reading through all of this (the emails) brings up some loose ends. For example original belief. Although I later identified "I am vulnerable" as an original belief I haven't gone down to that 'basic' level that you were able to take your workshop participants down to.
WB That doesn't matter. Work on ob is aiming on reversing the tendency to avoid unpleasant and to go for pleasant states. Once this tendency is reversed, and unpleasant states can be accepted/pleasant states are no more longed for (and internal states are no more important), it's no more necessary to go for the deepest level of ob.
Kate Is it sufficient that I understand and am working towards this. I don't believe I've reached the stage where "internal states are no more important", I still struggle with this.
WB Please give me an example.
Kate The example given above where I was feeling lost and now that I have found 'being one with nature' again and practicing this, I'm feeling so much better. Surely if internal states were of no importance to me it wouldn't matter whether I was feeling lost or not.
Even though I might (can't say I will until it happens) accept all that crosses my path, good, bad or indifferent, I still prefer the good. It seems odd to me that this wouldn't be the case.
I find this difficult to explain, perhaps I'm on the wrong track.
WB As long as there is a preference you're not finished.
Kate Lol. I know I'm not finished. I can't even see the top of the mountain.
WB Maybe because you p r e f e r not to see it? :)
Kate lol. Perhaps I do, although I don't know why!
WB And another depression might be already on it's way...
Kate I suppose this too must be accepted :)
WB Right :)
Kate :)
WB So what I suggest is that you start "convincing" yourself that it's absolutely indispensable to get rid of preferences. It's a question of "correct" thinking.
"Knowing" that it's necessary to go beyond preferences is a necessary preliminary step to become able to live it.
Kate It is one thing to know that I must go beyond preferences and quite another to actually try to live this. I feel as if I had no preferences then I would be dead.
WB Your feeling is right.
Kate Lol. I just knew you would say this :)
Kate How do I know to move this way or that, even to choose what to eat. This makes me think of Stephen Jourdain who watched TV not caring what was showing. But I am an ordinary person,
WB He, too is an ordinary person; and me, too. Just don't think about it. We all are ordinary persons.
Kate Yes but...
WB Things happen automatically. Life is evolving and you respond to what happens, accepting what life presents. It's as simple as this.
Kate Yes I see that.
WB Without preferences you life will tend to match your ev. Things come up and you just respond.
Kate Ok.
WB With preferences you are a wellness junkie :)
Kate Yes, could be the case :)
Kate ... my daily life is guided by preferences. Even when I choose to do something that I don't like it is still my preference.
WB When your decisions are no more made by preferences but by ev (ev is more than a nice feeling, it's also kind of an existential duty to do what you feel you have to do; that might not always be pleasant, but always fulfilling. as a mother you must know what I mean) then all things evolve naturally and automatically. The question of preferences doesn't even appear anymore.
Kate I am already careful about voicing my opinions. This was very difficult initially but has become easier as I realize that my opinion is not important, however not to have an opinion at all - how would I do this?
WB Deep down in yourself there are no opinions. That's where the center is. In functional life you need to pretend to have opinions. You may even make up opinions related to the context you're in. you become a comedian in the play of life. All opinions are made up by identity reinforcing or/and maintaining it. Just don't believe in (the reality of) your opinions anymore.
Kate This part of the mountain seems to be vertical Wolfgang, perhaps you can point out some foot-holes for me :)
WB I try to do my best :)
I've sent parts of this mail (concerning opinions and preferences) to some of my English speaking friends and asked them to respond their way. I'll transfer their answers to you.
WB Here is James's answer:
Hi Kate,
First, if you "try" to live this, you will inevitably fail. As the great enlightened master yoda said "there is no try, only do!" :) and anything in your life that you have achieved or been successful in you simply (or perhaps not so simply) did! So please stop "trying".
It is not so much a problem of preferences, rather it is a problem with attachment to those things that you prefer and the outcome of those attachments. It is a picking and choosing and the inherent happiness or unhappiness that comes from desiring one thing over another. Once you pick one thing over another you consciously or Perhaps unconsciously make a judgment for or against either or both.
And 'for' judgments are no better than 'against' judgments they are all judgments. Anytime that you set one against the other you create separation between you and what is, between you and the other. And when all this is happening your life cannot flow, it cannot flow because you are directing it with your preferences.
So be vigilant of the judgments and then be vigilant of the attachment to the outcomes of your preferences. Just watch and then let life unfold without you directing it. You may see that the preferences are not such a problem. Watch for them. When you are vigilant you may find that it is identity that chooses, it is identity that desires one over the other.
Soon it is not so much preferences that disappear but your attachment to the outcome. The preferences may cease to be as before - or not. Preferring one outcome over the other here is the same. Just let it flow, let it unfold. When you try to direct you are making a preference.
With opinions it is similar. Opinions being nothing more than a belief before it is set in stone. (Of course that is just my opinion) :) You may have opinions and you may have beliefs but as long as you hold them so strongly, cling to them, there is no room for anything else, and once again, you end up directing your life, instead of just allowing it the space to unfold in front of you. Hope this helps.
James
WB Here is Christian’s answer
Kate,
Look at preferences in terms of two types:
1) Practical choices
2) Identity assertions
Preferences for inner states would fall into category 2. This is the kind of preference you seem to be having trouble with.
What's important is to act as if there were no preference for inner states. This is not so easy at first, but as you stay more and more with s.r., you will find yourself preferring s.r. over inner states.
You asked: How does one avoid having opinions? Hmmm.... It's probably a matter of undoing the beliefs that support the opinions.
Best to you,
Christian
WB This is Aladin’s answer
Hi,
"I feel as if I had no preferences then I would be dead."
Which "I" would be dead? I´d say the "I" you´re talking about has never been alive and never will.
"How do I know to move this way or that..."
"It" takes care of all of that. Who cares if you go this way or
that? (It´s the context that guides you to go left or right, isn´t it?)
"I am already careful about voicing my opinions. This was very difficult initially but has become easier as I realize that my opinion is not important, however not to have an opinion at all - how would I do this?"
I remember well, when I was a young boy, I was amazed to see adults having shitloads of firm opinions about so many things. Somehow I admired that kinda Winchester, loaded with bullets. Sadly enough, almost any of my hard earned opinions got bust, earlier or later. Even their replacements didn´t seem to hold up for the whole life. Please explain to me how you arrived to get them fixed.
Aladin
Kate ... my daily life is guided by preferences. Even when I choose to do something that I don't like it is still my preference.
WB Stop thinking that you choose !
Presupposition: you just think you choose but in fact you don't. If that were true, what would be the consequences for you?
(A few days later)
Kate When I started to respond to this question, I felt I needed to take time out to work things out in my own mind, both with regard to your question and to what others had written in order to help and guide me.
For these last few days my thoughts have twisted and turned. I knew it was not enough for me to accept what was being said, I had to feel it for myself. This morning I felt it.
My life is like a river, its path is determined by what is going on before, up to this present moment in time. So when it rains heavy in the mountains it comes to full flood and it 'chooses' to break its banks at this particular spot and flood the fields. It 'chooses' to uproot this tree but leaves the one next to it still standing. It 'chooses' to go quiet when the banks are wide and the river floor runs deep. To the river running alongside, which is still running fast, it may say 'Why run so fast, why not become quite like me?' and so it passes an opinion on its fellow river, judging it because it is not like itself.
And so preferences are just thoughts that come after the act. It doesn't matter whether I have preferences or not. Everything that has come before determines what I 'choose' to eat and whether I will do this or that. I may feel happy or sad about what comes about but I cannot change it. I cannot even change my thoughts about it, they will arise automatically depending on all that has gone before up to this moment.
At this moment I no longer believe in my opinions. They arise as all things arise, they are not important.
All that was written by you, by Hsin Hsin Ming, and by the people who kindly responded to my request for help, helped to distill my thoughts and make things clear.
Please extend my thanks to your friends, I very much appreciate their willingness to help, and the time and effort put into their answers.
I now know that my request for help and the help that flowed from this request are all one, each inside the other. The vertical cliff has disappeared, it never existed.
(Some weeks later)
Within the last few days it has become clearer how I create my world in
my
head. My world is my own, created from memories and the present moment
which is processed, distorted, remembered or forgotten and becomes part of
my world.
I cannot know anything but this moment, all else is just in my mind. Even
what happened the moment before this, is memory only. When I awake I
re-create my world and when I sleep it dies. What goes on while I sleep,
goes on, but it does not become part of my world until I learn about it on
waking.
All like, dislike, opinion etc is based on memory. While ever I am
comparing (beautiful or ugly), I am in illusion because in reality there is
nothing to compare to, it just is.
Now I know that I create my world but still I stay trapped within it.
